Air France / KLM Virtual Airlines Forums - Question about flight route for today's event.

Air France / KLM Virtual Airlines Forums | AFVA Operations | Question about flight route for today's event.

AFV011
Senior Captain, B777-300

Joined on September 19 2004
GVA 5 Year Anniversary
Online Two Fifty Club
Triple Century Club
Historic Triple Century Club

"Remember...140, 250, and REALLY FAST"
Midwestern United States

394 legs, 606.7 hours
274 legs, 430.6 hours online
86 legs, 126.5 hours ACARS
8 legs, 16.0 hours event
501 legs, 763.5 hours total

Posted onPost created on September 25 2004 05:57 ET by Michael Carter

While I was charting the route last night for the Budpest run this afternoon, I noticed that the route of flight is going in the direction of Berlin using UN858. Why are we routing to the north?

A more direct routing is available going in the direction of Vienna LOWW:

BUBLI UG42 LUVAL UL851 KUDES UN871 TULSI UL725 SNU R26 STEIN L605 SIRDU Y52 LHPB.

I flew the majority of this route to Vienna just the other night. After SNU, it's approximately another 150NM to LHPB.

To add, after LIMGO intersection on the original routing I cannot find UZ111, OBIGA, UL984, etc., on my Jepp Hi- or Lo- charts anywhere.

Anyone know why I can't find these airways on a Jepp chart for the original routing? Are they FS routes or FSNav route only?

DVA237
Senior Captain, MD-11

Joined on January 18 2004
Century Club
Online Century Club

New York, NY USA

181 legs, 323.2 hours
177 legs, 318.5 hours online
34 legs, 65.9 hours event

Posted onPost created on September 25 2004 11:09 ET by Mike Sweeney

Michael,
Your routing is definitely a lot quicker than the one I filed. Looks like you will arrive 30 minutes before me.
Langen atc is good though and Germany is CROWDED

;-)

Mike Sweeney

Senior Captain, MD-11

Posted onPost created on September 25 2004 20:31 ET by Michael Carter

Well after flying almost the identical route a few days ago, it seemd logical to fly the same route again, at least until Vienna. I didn't see any reason to go north.

That was something else at Budepest. I read the center controllers notes in his pop-up window on ServInfo after the flight. He said to expect a high entry into the ATA. I guess 370 qualifies! I was coming down like a rock. The engines were at flight-idle all the way down to 4000 with most of the boards out to maintain 270 and then 250.

I was just making 4000 before the turn to base. It was fun.

Posted onPost created on September 26 2004 19:48 ET by Mike Sweeney

That's interesting about the late descent being intentional on atc's part and I'm wondering this ... perhaps Budapest arrivals were kept high longer to avoid conflicts with Vienna arrivals?

In any case, 50nm from the destination at FL370 and then given a descent all the way down to 4000 - that's definitely incorrect. On your routing, I suppose the descent needed to start while in Wien Radar's space.

I was lucky on the routing from the north because Bratislava gave me lower when appropriate for the normal start of descent. I had to pretty much ask each controller for lower when I checked in with them but they obliged me with each request and it worked out ok for me.

Anyhow, glad to help give a boost to AFV's first event (this one appeared to be DVA sponsored). Even if only 2 of us were able to make the flight, that's equivalent to 20% of the AFV membership so statistically looked good.

Mike Sweeney

Senior Captain, MD-11

Posted onPost created on September 26 2004 21:12 ET by Michael Carter

My descent should have started 8NM from STEIN intersection about 30NM south of Vienna. I guess since there is mostly no charted descent points for a lot of airports you have to ask to come down. I guess they expect you to ask for the descent. I don't know. In the UK they tell you when to come down.

Well thanks for flying with me. That's the first time I had a chance to talk to anyone en-route. I had fun!

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